If it was a brown dwarf, it's mass would be, minimum, of 7 Jupiter masses although many argue that the minimum mass is 13 Jupiter masses. If there was a 7 Jupiter mass object running around in the solar system, it would have been notice, due to the disturbed motion of the planets, well before now. And your support for this statement? What is your experience in such operations?
What is your experience in psychology? Which, as above, would have been noticed by the motions of the planets. Yeah, right.
Telescope time is projected years in advance, why would you think you would get time by just walking up to the observatory. Not to mention, the people that use them are trained in their use. Beside that, why would anyone allow an unknown person to use a multi million dollar object?
How far would you get walking up to sitting on the tarmac and asking if you could take it for the spin. BTW, the answer to your question, it no. So do the big quakes, Japan has them frequently. Those 4. If, as you say, 4. Elenin looks like many other comets and has been seen regularly by amateur not jost professional astronomers using conventional telescopes.
So it rather clearly is not a trick. It isn't anything special, either. Are you claiming there could be something hidden by Elenin? How could that possibly work? Both Elenin and Earth are in motion.
They are not fixed objects in space. There is a only a small time window when anything could be directly behind Elenin from the Earth's perspective. I've included a small, extremely simplified, image to portray this point. Elenin is a modest object in any case, so even with perfect alignment, very little could be hidden behind it.
A trick by who? Starviewer has begun researching this topic. Of course, I'm sure you all would not even give their claims the time of day, even though they have a huge team of researchers working on this stuff non stop. View their post about Elenin That is above my level of knowledge, I just do research and cite what I discovered during my studies. Now look at the bottom picture You say that as if you don't think coincidences ever happen.
With Earthquakes happening very frequently, and alignments happening frequently, there are bound to be a great many coincidences.
What is the claim? Check this out I see two images, one of which claims to include Elenin, the other with no useful information it says, "Image from ????? And please answer who you think is trying to "trick us" with "psyops" using a comet? What is this supposed to show? The image is supposed to show what was claimed to be a leaked photo of the Brown Dwarf with bodies orbiting it. The claim is that G1. Starviewer proposed over a year ago that Supernova Remnant G1.
And honestly, Noclevername, I stated an opinion and don't need your reticule about it. But I mean seriously, if the [language] was about to hit the fan I highly doubt there would be any reason to alarm the public and cause mass panic. After all, look at Japan admitting to keeping the radiation measurements a secret.
The cluster almost looks a bit fuzzy and more faint than any of the surround stars. We would have a view more pictures of Elenin to see if it's consistent.
Look, I hope this stuff doesn't happen as bad as all of you. Not like I go to bed every day feeling exciting that we're all [language]. As for Tensor's questions Moderation, I do not have answers And yet, when I ask specific questions about the data one needs to know if there are any connections between the alignments and the definition of those alignments , you say you don't know.
Since Mensur doesn't even present the particulars about the alignments and note that when others provide data on those alignments, they prove to be outside his error claims. Yet, in Post 75 kamaz points out a 2.
Mensur also doesn't say what his mechanism is. Or why he states that inclinations can be safely ignored, even thought they can be at least as much as Or why he includes only certain special 4. So exactly what data did you find that lead you to think that there is an alignment-earthquake connection and what exactly do you think within that data constitutes proof? What, they can't make up their minds if the "approaching brown dwarf" is G1.
At least Elenin moves with respect to the background stars Youtube also has a "huge team of researchers working on this stuff non stop. If they know the first thing about what they claim to be doing, and if you think their research is sound, then please answer these questions. How many dark frames did Gustavo Muler take to subtract from his images?
Did he do any dark subtraction at all? Looking at his images it's clear that they're full of hot pixels, either from cosmic ray hits or simply permanent hot pixels that have not been subtracted. When you stack multiple images together to form a single still image when tracking with the comet like this it makes the hot pixels appear to be tiny points of light that traveled with the comet.
The "Starviewer team" seems to think that these are actual celestial objects. They're not. My school text books taught me that the reason for the earthquakes of any magnitude was essentially the same- plate tectonics; only the magnitude varies. Moreover, if you look at the history of the earthquakes, high magnitude earthquakes are not recent phenomena.
They happened even when comet Elenin was nowhere in picture. How do you explain that? I will say that one thing I was happy to read is Astronut of GLP running a test to see if Elenin perturbed a small asteroid. That is why I believe that it's not Comet Elenin that is going to be a problem, but maybe something else is there that will cause a problem. The Alignment dates of Elenin causing Earthquakes date way back before just the recent ones.
GLP is just now finishing their observatory where we will be able to remotely control the telescope. You mean that if I put up a picture of a unicorn on a site and claim it was leaked you would believe in unicorns? Think of any kind of photo as needing a unicorn test. Did you actually research what a supernova remnant can be or is and compare it with a brown dwarf?
Supernova remnants are White dwarfs, black dwarfs not to be confused with a black hole , or neutron stars, possibly quark stars or black holes. All of which would have disrupted the planetary orbits a long time ago.
Which amateur astronomers me included would have noticed and there has been no information passed along at my local club meetings, nationally, or internationally. But I mean seriously, if the Language was about to hit the fan Statements here in ATM, opinion or not, are usually challenged for support or evidence.
Have you been able to verify that the leaked photo was of Elenin? Or could it have been the same photo of a brown dwarf and there has been planets found orbiting a brown dwarf that you saw somewhere else, presented as a leaked photo of Elenin? Or could it have been a photo of something else entirely, that you've seen somewhere else, that was presented as a leaked photo of Elenin? We would have a view more pictures of Elenin to see if it was there in all of them.
This is how you should look at it. Which makes me wonder why you would try to present it as evidence, if you thought we would have to view more pictures. Is it what Mensur Omerbashis is addressing in his main paper named Magnification of mantle resonance as a cause of tectonics? I am simply asking a question. Who do you think is trying to trick us? There is no need to be rude in your response, simply answer the question, please. And, you don't think that if something else was there, with the mass you keep talking about supernova remnant, brown dwarf wouldn't have already perturbed the asteroid?
What dates, what earthquakes, what are the alignment parameters? GLP has a rather bad reputation here. There were people from GLP that have tried to argue their ideas here before. When they do, they tend to have trouble answering, or don't want to answer questions about their ideas. And several people here me included , who went to GLP, were informed they weren't wanted there, because they were asking embarrassing questions. The kind of questions that required answers with facts and evidence.
As a result, most anything coming from GLP is looked at with large grains of salt. The Powers That Be I assume this is supposed to be in answer to my question. Could you please name them? He explain the mechanism I don't know I assume you mean "ridicule. But more to the point, why do you trust the people you cite? What about what they say convinces you that they're right? Is it what Omerbashis is addressing in is main paper named Magnification of mantle resonance as a cause of tectonics?
You left off a 7. Second, I've read the paper and that problem I have with it is that he doesn't specify anything about planets affecting the Earth in it. It talks about the moon, and has the following to say about the sun: Importantly, Eqs.
So, if the Sun's effect produces non-sensical results, then why does he include it in his calculations for his alignments? And, although, as I've said, he doesn't mention the planets, his effects are the same, whether the planet is on the near side, far side, or in between in the alignment. Which explains why he didn't mention the planets. He doesn't have a mechanism. First of Don, the link isn't working. I don't know if i am getting it right but in 7 he include a mean interval betwen conjunctions of the Moon and the Sun Questions I would like answered: Why do the 'alignments' cited in these things disregard the third dimension entirely?
How can anything be hidden behind a comet? Physics dictates that the only way they can remiain aligned for that to be the case they must be travelling in the same direction at the same apparent speed, and the only way that can occur is if they are in the same place.
How can a brown dwarf or anything like that be affecting us purely by shaking our plates up a bit, rather than, say, yanking Earth and all the other planets around in their orbits and making obviously noticeable perturbations in their locations that would be spotted by anyone and everyone who makes a hobby never mind a profession of looking at the sky? What has anyone done to prove that the correlation, even if it does exist, is a causal link? Does anyone proposing this business about Elenin doing all these things even understand that correlation and casual links are not one and the same?
Do you believe there has been an increase in the number of large earthquakes that needs explaining by something like this comet? If so, do you have any evidence for that?
Who are they? How do you know about them? Are you saying they are powerful enough to hide something that would be visible to any and every astronomer if not the naked eye and create a fake comet, but despite that "someone on the Internet" is able to uncover their secrets?
Even though non one in the mainstream media is able to? And what is this claim based on? Do you have any background information on this image? Anything at all? They apparently are claiming this is a brown dwarf all of 60 AU from Earth! Claiming it is a close brown dwarf is ridiculous. There would be far too many observational differences, and such a nearby brown dwarf couldn't be kept hidden.
There does seem to be a common misconception that brown dwarves are somehow invisible. The ones hitherto discovered were invisible because they did not emit visible light and could only be seen with infrared telescopes.
But they were also very distant. They do not absorb all visible light, they just don't emit their own. Stick one close enough to a star and it would be no more invisible than any of the planets and asteroids in our solar system.
Jupiter is smaller than a brown dwarf, does not emit its own light, and yet is one of the brightest naked eye objects in the night sky. A brown dwarf anywhere within our solar system close enough to be having any kind of gravitational effect on us would be one of the most obvious things in the sy.
I read back over my posts and I can find no examples of ridiculing you in any way. What specifically do you believe was intended as ridicule? Among other things, it'd have extreme parallax, nearly a full degree, meaning it would swing back and forth against the background across an angle of two degrees over the course of a year Not to mention that the spectrum of a brown dwarf and a supernova remnant look nothing at all alike.
As you can see, Saturn is very obvious! An object with 2x the mass of Jupiter would be a massive planet. Elenin is now 2AU from the Earth and Jupiter never comes closer than 3. If Elenin was a brown dwarf or a planet 2x the mass of Jupiter it would appear a lot like Jupiter even in the smallest of telescope using a magnification of only 50x.
A brown dwarf reflects light just like a planet. A brown dwarf at the same distance as Saturn would be one of the brightest objects in the sky. I just do research and cite what I discovered during my studies.
What is your definition of research and study? Is it: a surfing the web, watching some YouTube videos and hanging out on forums where mad conspiracy theories are discussed b studying astronomy, physics and mathematics so you can make informed decisions based on evidence to be on the safe side, you could do this using books published before anyone had heard of Elenin or Nibiru so you can be sure that The Powers That Be haven't tampered with them.
You know, the funny thing is that I have never heard of these things until someone predicts they're somehow destroying the world. It's not because they're being covered up per se, either. It's because I don't really pay much attention to astronomy news. I'd never heard of Comet Elenin until this thread. Let's not go there. Vasotech, if you have a problem with anyone's posts, Report them.
If you really, really want to start a dialogue about those posts, use PM. They'd just come up with an excuse for a different spectrum, say it's a actual remnant or some such nonsense.
Pointing out that it couldn't possibly be anywhere near as close to us as they claim seems a better argument against it having an effect on Earth. Okay, more updates Not sure why no one has pointed that out Could the Brown Dwarf try to make us a part of it's mini solar system?
Call it an artifact, Call it what you want, but I'm going to try and get a friend to recreate this experiment and see if the object is still there.
How abut answering some questions instead of doing more "research". Because it isn't true. One way you can see the presence of dark dense objects is through gravitational lensing. And what has the temperature got to do with it? This is the most interesting video I've seen on the subject Got any proper sources?
Enhanced video of dark object Someone shows you something in Photoshop and your first thought isn't "I wonder if that is a fake or an artefact"?
Not sure what you're getting at with the lensing bit, but you couldn't have a dense object near us that was just above absolute zero. If it's near us, it's getting heated by the sun. And what do you mean by "just above" because even without the sun, you're not going to get an object cooler than the temperature of the CMB. If a brown dwarf was 'trying to make us part of its mini solar system' there would be severe orbital perturbations of ALL planets in the solar system.
Are there any observations to support this? Gravitational lensing from what? GL magnifies objects behind it due to the massive gravity of the object an entire universe. Also, here's a guy that filmed Elenin under a IR camera and you can clearly see a dark circle in the background. If this is above your level of knowledge, then how do you determine what research is valid?
It can try all it wants, but I'm not going to join. That's not how gravitational lensing works. As pointed out, what brown dwarf and where are the perturbations on the planets that would result? I'll call it what it is, a hoax from a known liar and hoaxer, jcattera. His IR camera's limiting magnitude is far lower than Elenin's very dim magnitude.
As you can see even on ATS, he repeatedly lies about where his camera is pointing in the sky. He just does whatever he has to produce an image that looks "interesting" enough to sucker people in and deletes any comments that debunk him.
I only made that claim that they were hinting at that. I don't believe I ever stated that they were in fact celestial objects, it's just an odd coincidence that the same pattern is in both the photos.
Did you see how many different patterns were present in various photos from Muler? It's no surprise that if you dig hard enough you can find one that looks similar to a hoaxed photo that claims to be "moons of Nibiru. Well, if they are faked then it isn't a coincidence. Now about those questions No, you can't play those kinds of games. You can't make a claim about something Elenin is a brown dwarf, for example , then when questioned about it say "I didn't say it, someone else said it".
You are presenting it on BAUT, you are presenting this work as an idea to be taken seriously, then you have to answer the questions about it. Defend it, answer the questions about it, or withdraw the claim; your choice. At bare minimum, can you tell us what would convince you that your sources are wrong?
To set my mind at ease, I would want to see Infrared photos of Elenin and all around it. Including photos from where the guy in the Youtube video claims it saw the 'Dark Orb' in his pictures. I did not mean to 'make a claim' I just happen to be an avid reader of Starviewer and find interest in their research. Anyone have a way to do this? Elenin is bogus so you look in the wrong direction go to terral03 for the facts, it will be with us in the next 2 months be prepard" What is this person talking about?
A couple of my outstanding questions: In an earlier post, you seemed to suggest that Elenin could somehow hide another object. And regarding an image you linked to, I'll repeat the text of my question: The image is supposed to show what was claimed to be a leaked photo of the Brown Dwarf with bodies orbiting it. I did not mean to 'make a claim' So it was an accident? But you have made lots of claims; like the mysterious "Powers That Be" creating a fake comet.
So how about explaining who, why and how? Or formally withdraw this claim. Surely this has already been answered multiple times? He is talking about the periodicity of the phases of the moon. Which doesn't necessarily have to do with conjunctions of the Sun-Moon. And if you read a bit further, you'll see where he suppresses the Sun's period, why if the Sun is being taken into account?. Now, if you want to claim he's including the Sun on the Sun-Moon conjunctions, why doesn't he mention the Sun's tidal effects?
Why does he keep harping on the periodicity and not tidal effects? As a matter of fact, he mentions spring-tide three times. All in connection with periods or periodicity Note, also, this in the paper: "Note that tidal analysis theory allows for the solar declinational tide Ssa as a major spectral peak to be a mixture of gravitational and meteorological effects, and as such far from any natural resonance. Why would he emphasize that fact that the Sun doesn't have any natural resonance, if he's looking for a resonance?
Or how about this: Also, some claim that GPS measurements collected continuously within a hour observation window reveal that diurnal peak aliasing could cause the semi-annual period to appear in the signal, but, curiously, not the lunar synodic semi- monthly period" Why mention that the period for the Sun that he found, may be a false signal?
If he is so concerned about the Sun? It looks to me as if he is trying to get rid of the Sun, in his periodicities. One more thing, if he is taking the Sun into account, when the Sun-Moon are in conjunction or opposition, why does he list Sun alignments alone with Earth and other planets separately from Sun-Moon alignments?
So it was an accident? Ok let me see here First off I never said anyone 'created a fake comet', because I don't see a way anyone could do that Secondly, If Earthquakes happen at these alignments, we know that a comet cannot cause this. So it has to be something else?
Interesting to see what Earth changes are going to happen in the upcoming months. Why - To avoid mass chaos, looting, and panic.
How - By distracting us with a stupid comet that just so happens to being coming around the same time. And regarding an image you linked to, I'll repeat the text of my question: Perhaps the object is not 'hidden' by Elenin, but Elenin has the spotlight as a distraction. As to the picture, I don't know much about it. I figured it was probably faked, I just was pointing out the fact that Starviewer made that connection between the 2 images.
Ok let me see here Secondly, If Earthquakes happen at these alignments, we know that a comet cannot cause this. He simply provides historic data suggesting that physical processes are indeed occurring during an alignment that cause the seismic activity. So that naturally leads to the question, what is happening during a planetary alignment that would cause earthquakes on Earth?
The main candidate for a viable response to this question is the "electric universe" or "plasma cosmology" model. Plasma cosmology is an astronomical model that suggests that the sun and planets are electrically charged celestial objects that exist in an electric field that is generated by the sun in a radial direction like the spokes on a bicycle wheel throughout the solar system.
Charges flow through this electric field by virtue of the plasma particles that are constantly being released by the sun aka solar wind. Plasma is the fourth state of matter solid, liquid, and gas being the first three and comprises free protons, neutrons, electrons and ions that make up atoms. Plasma is not electrically neutral, but is a superconductor that can carry electrical charges throughout the solar system and indeed into interstellar and intergalactic space As electrical charges are distributed by plasma through the solar system, then different regions of space become electrically charged depending on their distance from the sun.
Put simply, the sun comprises a large positive charge while the distant ends of the solar system form the most negatively charged regions of the solar system.
In between, the electric field of the sun and the plasma currents flowing from it through space, provide electrical charges to planets, asteroids and comets depending on the nature of their orbits and proximity to one another. Fig 2. Plasma discharge - note radial path of plasma.
Plasma discharges see Fig 2 therefore regularly occur between celestial bodies. When a comet moves close to a planet or the sun, the comet's electrical charge is significantly different in that region of the solar system's electrical field.
For example, when comets travel close to the sun, plasma discharges aka Coronal Mass Ejections have been observed to occur. Most astronomers are puzzled by such events which they currently regard as mere coincidence. For supporters of plasma cosmology, however, the sun's behavior when comet's approach is evidence of the plasma discharge that regularly occurs when two charged celestial bodies approach each other. The plasma cosmology model gives us a means of understanding how the planetary alignments that Dr.
Omerbashich discusses are directly related to seismic activity. Essentially, when the Earth is aligned with two or more celestial bodies, then a plasma discharge occurs and seismic activity is stimulated. So now we can better understand how planetary alignments might cause seismic activity which Dr. Omerbashich has observed in recent historical data.
Most importantly, he argues that seismic activity has been observed when the Earth aligned with Comet Elenin as early as In his paper, he writes :. Note that, in terms of seismicity, the Elenin started playing a role in , and continued doing so, contributing in 6 out of the 22 alignment-relating seisms.
Similarly, the sun participated in 19 such alignments, the Mercury in 9, the Venus in 8, the moon in 9, the Mars in 2, the Jupiter in 4, the Saturn in 1, the Uranus in 2, and the Neptune in 1. Under the electric universe model, it is understandable how the sun would be so dominant in planetary alignments associated with large earthquake activity. This is consistent with Dr. Omerbashich's own view that:. Similarly, the electric universe model helps explain why Mercury and Venus also play prominent roles in alignments associated with seismic activity on Earth.
What's very important is noting that larger planetary bodies such as Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus, have not played prominent roles in planetary alignments. Yet mysteriously, Elenin has. Fig 3. Elenin's alignment with Mercury and Earth on March 8, For example, on March 8, , Elenin formed an alignment with the Earth and Mercury, 3 days before the devastating Japan magnitude 9 earthquake see fig 3.
How can Elenin play such a prominent role in seismic activity if it is just a small comet with little mass as NASA argues? Omerbashich's model does point to a large planetary body given Elenin's effect on Earth from distances as far away as Uranus.
This has been cited by researchers believing Dr. The comet has sparked an Internet firestorm among believers who claim its approach is linked to Earth's destruction, a rogue "planet" called Nibiru and a NASA conspiracy to cover it all up. Now NASA is stressing the simple truth: Comet Elenin is just an icy comet — and a wimpy one at that — which poses no threat to our planet. Take, for example, Elenin's "close" approach to Earth. That closest point is still out in deep space, a distant 22 million miles 35 million kilometers from our planet, NASA scientists explained in a statement released yesterday Aug.
That's more than 90 times the distance from the Earth to the moon, they added. The speculations by comet Elenin doomsayers claiming that the comet will align with other planets or celestial bodies to wreak havoc on Earth are just not true, the space agency says.
NASA's statement on comet Elenin stepped from a barrage of questions sent in by the public over the last few months to sort out fact from the digital fictions swarming across the Internet regarding the comet's appearance.
Comet Elenin was discovered on Dec. At the time, the comet was about million miles million km from Earth. It is fairly faint and not expected to dazzle skywatchers, NASA scientists have said.
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